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on Nov 16, 2010
nice ad for Harmer's recount fund. i initially thought this was a news article.
This article somehow got me thinking about cooked geese, and turkeys, and thence to Thanksgiving. And since we're posting ads, howsabout a concurrent call for donations in keeping with the Season, that'll actually do somebody a lot of good:
This is from a CCTimes article on Thanksgiving dinners for needy folks in Livermore -- they could use some help! Web Link
"For details on how to help the Open Heart Kitchen, e-mail McKeever at email@example.com or visit Web Link.
The Livermore Community Thanksgiving Dinner happens all day at the Bothwell Center, 2466 Eighth Street, Livermore. Anyone interested in helping out should attend a meeting at 7 p.m. Wednesday, Nov. 24 at the center.
Volunteers, monetary and food donations are needed. Checks can be made payable to "The Livermore Community Thanksgiving Dinner" and dropped off at the US Bank 2125 Second St., Livermore. For details, call Moore at 925-455-9782 or visit www.lctd.org"
It needs editorial review,
It's okay Hal - it's coming from a republican, so edit she won't.
This guy is amazing, I will relish the day he admits defeat gracefully. I agree with the press release tone....Elayne themother offour Harmer's tasteless remark is not at all humorous. I have yet to see an article about her with those 4 kids being mentioned time and time again. He is desperate, and a sore loser and it appears he will demand a recount soon
I have a serious question: who paid for Mr. Harmer's excellent field trip to Washington DC, to be a pretend Congressman?
(/cue the inapposite "Obama trip" defense)
Some people like Citizen Paine are simply deeply opposed to Harmer because he is a Mormon representing traditional family values. People who complain that Harmer could not vote for himself in the election quickly forget that the current democratic president in office refuses to present a copy of his original birth certificate to the public. The real carpetbagger is in Washington DC.
It is clear that the same 3 or 4 individuals who have spent the last month on this blog constantly ripping Harmer have a deep seated hatred of his religious beliefs. We are tired of hearing your hatred venom that is obviously centered on your religious discrimination. The more you constantly blog on about him, the more clear it is to all of us. Take your hatred elsewhere, it is not welcome in our community.
BRAV-O, Common Sense -- the BIRTHER defense! I sure didn't see That One coming! Who says the TPers lack a sense of humor?
As to your other point of attack, what bothers me at least as much as the implications of his religious lifestyle choice is that he didn't "wear it" -- his stealth candidacy suggests to me that he knew he was out-of-step with mainstream California, and tried to hide behind the electorate's general impatient malaise. It almost worked.
But is that kind of deception a traditional family value?
Why isn't his religion a valid discussion point? Many within the Christian community do not acknowledge Mormons as Christians. Since we are supposedly a Christian nation, electing a non-Christian is a valid topic.
This exchange is drifting far past points of view built on assumptions that lack basis in any reality. Let's refocus the commentary on "does Mr. Harmer belong in house orientation meetings when he is not the Congress member-elect for District 11?"
There is no specification of religion or other considerations related to such social focus that is stated in Congress members' job descriptions. Quite in fact, the moderate majority of USAmericans are not active members of churches and support separation of religion from political and economic considerations. (REF: API research study, July/August 2010)
Thank you to the voters in the real world for nullifying the impact of the vote in the silly kingdom of California. If McNerny ultimately wins, it will confirm that his supporters are satisfied with having a Reid/Pelosi/Obama lackey carrying the lefty/socialist punchbowl for them, and that they are satisfied with bankrupting the country in pursuing their warped ideologies.
To the 3 or 4 of you who get up early to spew your hate towards, David Harmer, an honorable man, I agree that we are all tired of your comments. David cares about the future of our children. McNerney's voting for runaway spending is leaving our children with unsustainable debt and lower quality of life. Our Nation "get's it" and has spoken this last election. I pray that California "get's it" soon. It is very simple. Reagan understood when he said," "Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." McNerney votes to "run people's lives"...so that hard working people like me can pay for everyone who does not want to work...God help us...
I'm sure it is funded by the campaign funds. Maybe he and Joe Miller can get together and watch C-SPAN while Congress is in session.
Remember when Gore & Bush were neck and neck? What if Bush had just conceded because Gore had more votes? Should a politician give up just because his opponent got more votes?
On the other hand, Harmer might be a good guy, but his chances in politics are limited because there’s too much bias against Mormons. Most Christians don’t favor Mormons because, according to them, Mormons don’t believe in the “right kind of Jesus.” Then there’s people like Hal who take a hyperactive view of separation of church and state.
spcwt: "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!" Web Link
(psst -- there's no pesky Electoral College in Congressional races -- most votes actually wins)
Speaking for myself, I wish to reiterate that I Do Not Care, in the slightest, what Mr. Harmer chooses to believe as a private citizen. At all. Ever.
That said, our associations can be important indicators of our beliefs. If I said I was a member of the ACLU, or the Aryan Brotherhood, or Planned Parenthood or the KKK, those associations would say something to everyone about my likely political beliefs on important issues -- and actions, if elected.
Religion does not get a free pass in that arena â€“ if Iâ€™m a UU, or a Southern Baptist, or a Jew, or, yes, a Mormon, then that suggests something about my political beliefs on important issues -- and likely actions, if elected.
I believe this is particularly true of conservative Christian churches and especially the LDS church, which has a very strong orthodoxy, appears to tolerate very little straying from that narrow path, and has very freely chosen to participate in election campaigns in an organized, activist way.
Then, when a candidate tells a friendly audience he was â€œcalled by the spiritâ€ to run (and run and run), and that he puts his religion first, above his citizenship, then he invites inquiry into the implications of that personal hierarchy. I believe thatâ€™s especially true when the candidate did so consciously little to introduce himself to the District â€“ informed citizenship requires no less effort.
Why anybody would call that hate-mongering is beyond me â€“ it simply is not. I happen to disagree with most of the political/social philosophy publicly espoused by the LDS church, and, by extension, Mr. Harmer. And I vote. I am not ashamed of that, nor will I be shamed into silence about it.
In other news, where is all this dark, unsupported innuendo coming from about the vote tally? If Anyone has ANY Actual Evidence of electoral misconduct, by all means bring it forward. If not, you just look paranoid, and more than a little silly.
[Portion removed] Harmer's assertion that he prioritizes his religious beliefs and doctrines over his constitutional duties is the source of my objection. It doesn't matter to me if he is Buddist, Sikh, Moslem, Catholic, Methodist or Jewish, but his right wing views are not in sync with a lot of us and the specter he would legistlatively seek to impose his activist agenda is the problem. How would you feel if a newly elected Moslem introduced legislation mandating all American women wear the Hajib just because his religion takes that stand?. Think back to JFK's candidacy for President in 1960, Americans were concerned the rule of the Pope would supercede his political philosophies. JFK clarified very effectively that he was an American first, and the Papal edicts would be secondary in his legislative platform. This is not about bigotry, do not insult my level of tolerance as you know nothing about me. The vast majority of my LDS friends are not nearly as sensitive and quick to use the "bigotry" as folks on this post. We are "One Nation Under God" but we are not a theocracy....there is a difference.
I believe that McNerney is an honorable family man. I also believe that he has done a good job so far. I do not like Harmer's views and statements. In previous posts I have said the same thing. I did not know that Harmer was a Mormon until now. I respect members of the LDS church and believe they have a right to their religious views. That said, how can we forget the LDS funding in regard to proposition 8? If that is not hate-mongering, I don't know what is!
So "Collins", you note you believe LDS members have a right to their religious views, and "jrm" you note that some of your friends are even LDS members. Wow, how enlightened you two truly are. The more you blog, the more you confirm what we all know. Really sad.
If McNerney ends up winning, so be it. But it is certainly reasonable for Harmer to not concede until the vote counting is concluded, and also to request a recount if the final tally remains close. In many states, a recount would be automatic, with the percentage difference between the candidates being so low.
I also believe that any candidate who loses by a small margin has the right to a recount, given how easy it is in CA to commit voter fraud, and to stuff the ballot box. A voting process that doesn't require voter identification (and in fact actively discourages it) is prone to manipulation. The "permanent absentee" process also encourages voter fraud and ballot box stuffing.
For that matter, I have my own doubts about the integrity of the vote counting process in the first place, and even the recount process, depending on how the "counters" are chosen.
But the Democratic Party in CA has resisted all attempts to improve the integrity of the voting process in our state. One can only speculate as to why.....
So, did David Harmer say he puts his church and their authority above his civic responsibility, or did he say he puts God first in his life? To me, there is a world of difference.
I'm glad I don't know who you people are. I certainly consider myself a Christian, so I suppose I will forgive you anyway for your mean-spirited remarks.
Also, the LDS Church is almost never involved in politics, except where it's most important doctrine is at stake--the foundational nature of the family. The church gave no money to the Prop 8 campaign, but I certainly did. And it isn't money that wins a political contest anyhow. It is votes, and the majority has spoken, as it will in McNerney vs. Harmer.
Harry Reid continues to get re-elected, right? Did ya know he's Mormon?! And that it really doesn't matter!
1 -- I do not recall seeing anybody ask for your forgiveness. I certainly do not. Neither I nor anyone else on this board has done you any harm, as I have capability to see it.
2 -- the Mormon Church did contribute almost $200,000 of in-kind support to Prop 8. Indeed, the church was fined by the state for late reporting of some of it. Clever wording, yours, in misleading the reader by limiting your statement to coin-of-the-realm. Maybe deception really is a Family Value.
3 -- Further, the LA Times reported that the LDS church rallied its christian soldiers to the Prop 8 Cause in no uncertain terms, including the following report from the AP:
"Two members of the church's second-highest governing body, the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, quoted from Mormon scripture on the sanctity of marriage as they laid out a week-by-week strategy for boosting Mormon involvement before the Nov. 4 election in voter registration efforts, phone banks and distributing campaign materials.
“What we're about is the work of the Lord, and He will bless you for your involvement,” apostle M. Russell Ballard said during the hour-long meeting, which was broadcast to church buildings in California, Utah, Hawaii and Idaho." Web Link
4 -- As you state, apparently with some pride, the cheerleading worked. According to the website Mormons for Prop 8, more than half of the money raised for that initiative came from individual Mormons.
5 -- Maybe to you that really does sound like "almost never," but I think a fairer reading of your statement is: "the LDS Church almost never gets politically involved, except when it does." That it acted consciously and enthusiastically to deny full social participation to a significant minority of my friends and neighbors is, in my view, despicable and distinctly anti christ-like.
6 -- The Mormon Times report stated that Mr. Harmer said the following: "he considers himself a Christian first, an American second, a conservative third and finally, a Republican." Web Link
Now, the implications of that self-professed hierarchy are pretty clear to me, but I will leave your interpretation to your capable powers of mental and semantic gymnastics.
7 -- Money isn't just important in politics, it is bedrock crucial. To quote Jess Unruh, who actually knew what he was talking about: "Money is the mother's milk of politics." To claim its irrelevance is the same kind of sanctimonious sophistry you demonstrated with your "no money" quote. It is pernicious nonsense. If money is irrelevant, then why did you give so much of it to the Prop 8 Crusade?
8 -- I guess I expect better candor from an individual for whom denominational identification is important. I forgive you -- but I won't vote for your guy.
Does anybody think it's absurd for vote counting to take this long. We put a man on the moon but we can't count votes with a bit more speed?
And as someone who grew up in the South I can tell you that religion is a big factor and Romney better figure out a way to deal with it if he wants to run again. I still have my workbook and video about the Evils of Mormonism that the Southern Baptists gave me for free at a county fair. While I think it's hogwash, Im not Mormon so I don't really care whether Mormons are Christians or not. That's their battle not mine. But the Southern Baptists still pedal that material, so religion is a part of the voting decision and to deny it is silly.
LDS: I am not a member of LDS, but I am embarrassed at how Citizen Paine, JRW, Cardinal, and other bloggers have shown their hatred of your faith with their constant, non-stop, vile ripping of Mr.Harmer due to his religious faith. I also agree with you that it is important to explain the difference between putting God first in your life, and the false allegation by the hatemongers on this blog that Mr.Harmer would essentially let his church make political decisions for him. Shame on them, and as usual, these self described champions of diversity hate what they do not understand or belong to. God help them.
The voting results continue to show more votes being cast for Jerry McNerney as he keeps his .9@ lead. This will continue and it is not possible for Harmer to win. Harmer is wasting GOPers money and time but so be it.
[Portion removed[ ... the difference between private and public policies, although it's been amply explained. Maybe an example will help: I do not hate/dislike/oppose folks living privately according to any set of principles that that works for them and doesn't abuse innocents like affiliated children or animals. And TRH, that probably includes most LDS adherents.
In fact, I think it's interesting that their approach does work for a limited segment of the population and I hope that those for whom it works find their way to it. That said, it doesn't work for me, and for many, many others in our pluralistic society.
I do oppose those folks, including many LDS adherents and any others, who want to Impose their set of principles on others via public policy -- especially when that view excludes other folks from living their lives to their view of the fullest available extent. I think that's over-reaching their legitimate interests.
That's not hatred -- that's honest disagreement over policy.
And I'll also say that I'm most annoyed when they hide the ball, as I believe Mr. Harmer did in his campaign, and poster "LDS" did, above, in his disingenuous statements about Mormon activism.
And that's not hatred, either. That's just accountability.
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