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Shame on the Morgan Hill Principal

Original post made by Gary on May 12, 2010

The hundreds of thousands men and women who have given their lives throughout the history of America to make sure our American flag, the red, white, and blue, would keep flying in a country of liberty, must be moaning from their graves to hear that the lugnut principal at Morgan Hill High threatened several students on May 5 to either turn their American flag shirts inside out or be suspended from school.

He said he was "protecting" them, being that it was Cinco De Mayo (which, by the way, is NOT an American holiday, nor is it celebrated with much fanfare in Mexico, as it is the date of a small, singular battle, not a liberation or surrender of an enemy of any magnitude). Either way,this is NOT Mexico.

What was he thinking? He allowed Mexican cultural dancers in the schoolyard to perform their native dances while costumed in their native clothing, which is fine. I'm good with learning different cultures. But when did wearing patriotic clothing (no matter the purpose) become "politically incorrect" or dangerous in AMERICA?

This is NOT about being anti-Hispanic. It's not anti-any ethnic group. But it is about someone in education who should know better, squashing free speech and denigrating OUR AMERICAN FLAG. My thought is simple. If you don't like our flag, or what it stands for, or what it may intone, don't let the door to the border hit you on your rear end on the way out.

I was at the SF cruise ship terminal Monday for a luncheon, and hanging inside the check-in area for the port is a huge American flag. It is hanging above the ceiling as a beacon to visitors that yes, indeed, you are in AMERICA!

How dare this principal act like this. If he is allowed to keep his job, then a great disgrace to everything we cherish in AMERICA, including freedom of speech, is lost. We didn't ask our armed forces at Bunker Hill, Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal, Sicily, Normandy, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq/Afghanistan, or any of a thousand other battlefields to die so that students wearing the US flag on a shirt would be asked to turn it inside out. Horrendous!

Comments (62)

Posted by Sherry W., a resident of Danville
on May 12, 2010 at 9:46 am

I've just discovered this forum so I'm not too clear on the etiquette but thought I would contribute the discussion my (15 year old) son and I had about this. He said he figured that we weren't in the best position to decide why May 5th is considered a day to celebrate for Mexicans who are in the USA, but that if it is just the one day it is probably best to celebrate that culture and learn in the process about the significance. My thought was that if the American flag on the clothing of the kids would potentially incite violence, I would be relieved that they were asked to remove the shirts. We lived in another area years ago and the kids were warned not to wear particular colors lest they be considered part of a gang - I appreciated the warning there as well. Maybe I feel different as my grandparents were immigrants from Europe and we participate in various celebrations unique to their heritage and enjoy the spirit behind them.

All in all, moving here was a great thing.

Just my 2 cents.


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 12, 2010 at 11:53 am

I saw Channel 2 covering this story in the 7:00 A.M. news this morning, lots of raw nerves on both sides at the parents meeting with the school board last night. Gary, I understand where you are coming from and I respect your sense of patriotism, I fly a flag at my house. The reporters on the scene interviewed folks from both sides and the Hispanics felt it was an "in your face" move to denigrate the once a year Cinco de Mayo celebration, as one Hispanic student said "How would you feel is 5 of us went to a Fourth of July parade and wore the Mexican flag on our shirts?" It seemed the adolescents
on both sides had racial tension directed at each other from what I saw. This is a great opportunity for our young adults to learn from this experience and understand the feelings on both sides. I have tried to teach my kids to practice "understanding before disagreement"....granted some things will not be agreed on but our little planet will be a better place if we try that first. I don't thnk the Principal should be fired over this, from what I saw he/she was just trying to prevent a confrontation from ocurring.


Posted by American, a resident of Danville
on May 12, 2010 at 2:39 pm

Gary: I agree with your position 100%. It is not about being anti-anything, but rather about being pro-America, and showing loyalty and pride in the red, white, and blue. I am glad that the Superintendent apologized for the mistake of the school. If the students had a shirt that said something negative about Mexico, than I understand the school making them remove the shirts, but simply having an American flag on a shirt is absolutely appropriate and not a negative statement. What is next, making students take off crucifix or cross necklace, because it might incite non-christians? How about removing "In God We Trust" from the dollar bill? I am proud of the young students who stood their ground against the liberal, misguided school. We adults can learn a great deal from them, and the need to use common sense to protect the great symbols of our country.


Posted by Sherry W., a resident of Danville
on May 12, 2010 at 2:47 pm

I didn't get the whole story (my son's class discussed it in school) - did the boys who were wearing the American flag t-shirts wear them every day? If so, they were just being themsevles and it seems as though they weren't intending their attire to purposefully distract from the meaning of the event for those who celebrate Cinco de Mayo.


Posted by Ralph N. Shirlet, a resident of another community
on May 12, 2010 at 4:47 pm

Ralph N. Shirlet is a registered user.

Dear Emily,

Well, Golly Gee and what will it be, time for another tune? No, I have to leave but not for long and I will be back for Mother's and another little song. For it's Mother's, there are no others, they are the cookies in the passionate purple package.

Did I join the drifting commentary in this exchange or should I just ask the question, "Can anyone define an American, more precisely a USAmerican, that seems to exist without definition in various exchanges on the Express Forum?"

I wonder what symbols represent USAmericans more than their own humanity, diversity and global responsibility? Beyond the few commentators on this Forum, do we need the definition of a USAmerican from your readership?

Ralph with a wondrous smile without ROFL


Posted by Sigh, a resident of another community
on May 12, 2010 at 9:22 pm

What JRM said:
"I have tried to teach my kids to practice "understanding before disagreement"....granted some things will not be agreed on but our little planet will be a better place if we try that first."

But it's so much more fun to make assumptions and disagree. You're suggesting we might try a little benefit of the doubt instead of looking for an excuse to rant. Grownups are soooo boring.


Posted by derecha del americano, a resident of Alamo
on May 12, 2010 at 9:38 pm

[Post suprimido debido a una falta de respeto o comentario lenguaje ofensivo]

[Post removed due to disrespectful comment or offensive language]


Posted by Gary, a resident of Danville
on May 13, 2010 at 8:50 am

To jrm --

Your question about Hispanics wearing a shirt with the Mexican flag on it while attending a July 4th parade. I wouldn't necessarily give it a 2nd thought, as people wear shirts that have all kinds of messages and marketing on them that i may agree or disagree with. Free speech and all. Live and let live. And that's one of the points I was trying to make. Why would a school principal ASSUME that the kids wearing USA flag designs were out to denagrate May 5th? It's not their holiday. Heck, it's NOT EVEN A HOLIDAY WHATSOEVER here in this country. Sorry to say, but to most non-Hispanics in the USA, it seems May 5th has been just a marketing tool for beer companies, bars, restaurants, etc., to take advantage of another reason to sell happy hour. Several restauranteurs have told me that. It's like Octoberfest for Germans -- not a holiday in the USA but those with German roots celebrate it, and there aren't any problems with that that I know of. Non-Germans attend just to have a good time and slug a few dark beers and bratwursts. St. Patrick's Day? Same thing. The non-Irish flood the bars for green beer and corned beef each March 17. So how come the Hispanic community got their dander up over this?

Sure, let's celebrate different cultures, no problem, it's what helps bind us as a human race. But here's my central point -- should we allow our educators to make their own assumptions and squash free speech, especially about OUR NATIONAL FLAG? I don't buy the "protection" thing that principal was spinning -- he only did that after the public outcry. Again, this is the USA, our flag is our flag. Freedom of speech is obviously lost on so many of today's liberal educators.


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 13, 2010 at 12:20 pm

Gary...the facts are these, kids are free to wear patriotic clothing at the school, and I gather these kids have done so before without incident. The school is 40% Hispanic and has a legacy of racial tension and gang activity between white and brown students and so the administration is vigilant about providing an orderly and safe environment conducive to higher learning. Several white students approached the principal that day and said they were concerned about escalating "drama" between students throughout the morning and there were incidents of insults yelled back in forth in both Spanish and English between student groups. Of the 5 students in question 2 had red white and blue bandannas on, not T-shirts, and wearing bandannas is a violation of the stated school dress code. Again, students are free to wear patriotic garb and do so regularly at this school. The administration made a judgement call in the order of maintaining a safe environment, perhaps overreacting in the interest of safety.
The next day several of the kids spent the day at a local hotel giving interviews to Fox Network, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Beck etc and the commentators in turn did their job and whipped this up into another opportunity for self proclaimed patriotic experts to jump on the bandwagon. As expected the Tea Partiers arrived en masse in Morgan Hill last Friday and used this as a chance for media exposure wrapped in their best red, white and blue. Nothing wrong with that, I waved at them last week on Stone Valley Road and of course they have a right to gather and do their thing. Where you and I disagree is that this was not an effort by "liberal educators" (your term) to stamp out the rights of patriotic display, rather it was an attempt to quell a simmering situation in a school that sadly has a history of racial tension. To repeat for emphasis, the administration reacted to the concerns of students who were fearful of escalating conflict. Maybe the Principal overreacted in his judgement call, but as I have often said, "If I am right 51% of the time I am going to be a stock day trader for a living and be a millionaire". Lastly, I'm glad you mentioned your "live and let live" philosophy...it seems to me the Tea Party's venom and vitriol increasingly does not reflect that, the 2 gals at the Farmer's Market last Saturday revealed an increasing intolerance with those who do not see things their way. Indeed this week one of the Republican candidates for McNerney's seat declared in his Facebook page "it is open season for liberals and I have them in my crosshairs until November" Guns, scopes, shooting....all in the name of patriotism. That is NOT the American way in my mind.


Posted by American, a resident of Danville
on May 13, 2010 at 12:55 pm

Fact is that Assistant Principle Miguel Rodriguez made the "judgment call" to allow Mariachi dancers and other Cinco De Mayo activities to occur on campus, the very same day he made the "judgment call" to ban the wearing of the American flag on a t-shirt, despite the alleged racial tensions. You can not have it both ways. If you are honestly so concerned about rising racial tensions between these groups, do not allow anything that could increase them, including allowing the Mariachi dancers and Cinco De Mayo festivities. Essentially, Assistant Principle Rodriquez, chose one racial group over another racial group, at the expense of the American flag. Gary, you are absolutely correct in your analysis.


Posted by Sherry W., a resident of Danville
on May 13, 2010 at 6:22 pm

jrm - I saw the Farmer's Market women (and a man) at the republican stand on Saturday! Sorry to divert the topic here, but I was appalled! One of them yelled that Obama was an SOB and told someone who was (calmly and respectfully) disagreeing that she was an idiot and "get out of our faces." I have never seen that before from someone in the democrat or republican booths there - usually they may disagree, but they are respectful!

This is a tough topic - I feel as though the principal didn't choose one ethnic group over another. He was allowing one group to celebrate their own customs on one day that is considered a special day by many of that culture who live in this country. The students had a right to wear their flag shirts for sure, but I don't think teenagers always use good judgment in heated situations - especially boys (too much testosterone?). If students expressed concern that tensions were increasing and the principal didn't act and violence ensued, he would be on television for a whole different reason.


Posted by Question, a resident of another community
on May 13, 2010 at 6:24 pm

So, American, you're saying the principal should have let the students keep their bandanas in violation of school dress code and despite student concerns about escalating tension? I don't see how that contrasts to letting Mariachi dancers perform or how he's choosing one culture over another. 50% of the students in this state's public schools are hispanic/latino. I don't see how ONE day of celebration of the heritage of many of these students is threatening to anyone. I remember celebrating Chinese New Year at school as a kid. I also remember learning a great deal about Chinese culture as a result. I don't think that principal was choosing Chinese culture over American culture...just celebrating our diversity and trying to provide education.


Posted by American, a resident of Danville
on May 13, 2010 at 7:54 pm

Questions for "Question": What is your source for the statement that 50% of students in our states's public schools are hispanic? Even if that number is accurate, which I do not think it is, what difference does that have on forbiding the wearing of the American flag on a t-shirt? Lets assume in the future 60% of the students in California are hispanic, does that mean California no longer accepts the American flag as a symbol of our great country? In that scenario, is California no longer part of America? Your arguments, which I respectfully disagree with, actually strengthen the arguments of extremist who fear the fall of our country if nothing is done to stop illegal aliens from illegally entering our state. The issue is protecting symbols of America, not symbols of Mexico. Wear a t-shirt with a Mexico flag to school, it should be allowed, just like wearing a t-shirt with an American flag on it. But when a public American school, that us American tax payers pay for, allows symbols of a foreign country while excluding symbols of America, it is wrong. The superintendent understands the situation, and correctly apologized.


Posted by derecha del americano, a resident of Alamo
on May 13, 2010 at 8:48 pm

I am a proud Mexican-American, I believe in the Mexican flag first, that being my right as an American.


Posted by Question, a resident of another community
on May 14, 2010 at 5:16 am

For American:
Web Link

You did not really read and respond to my post or your logic would not have gone down the rabbit hole. My point in citing the 50% statistic is that it seems reasonable to spend ONE day in a year recognizing a holiday that celebrates the heritage of a large portion of that group. ONE day. Recognition. Sheesh. How does that imply I want their former country to take over the state? Paranoid much?

That was a rhetorical question.


Posted by Army Street, a resident of Danville
on May 14, 2010 at 6:54 am

In many school districts with high levels and concentrations of hispanics, there is already Caesar Chavez Day, Cinco de Mayo makes another date of special recognition for many illegal aliens and Mexicans.


Posted by Ralph N. Shirlet, a resident of another community
on May 14, 2010 at 7:09 am

Dear Emily,

Someplace in this discussion was the issue of proper authority by school administration facing the possibility of a clash of symbols. It drifted to a clash of verbal cymbals in this exchange.

We have so many humorous options to use in review. Our state was established by the Spanish, Russians and quite possibly the Chinese during 200 years of exploration. Other Europeans came later to California through a very new country, The United States of America. Uniquely, the majority of Californians have their origins in Europe at locations that are separated by less than a 4 hour plane ride including Mexican Americans.

I have always supported changing the name of Alamo to Yang as the mandarin word for Poplar (Alamo) and celebrating the long, wondrous history of Chinese civilization and its contributions to California. I considered the Russian word for Poplar, but quite honestly could not find that word. Around July 1st I often quietly sing "Oh Canada" after my time in commerce there.

What is important to remember is America is all lands from the Arctic to the tip of Chile and we are only USAmericans among all Americans. No one origin of USAmericans is more important than any other. No symbol is more important that WE, the people. So if a USAmerican wears a shirt with any flag in celebration of their origins we should join in celebration of our diversity.

What must be learned from diversity is that the USAmerican Flag should not be used in confrontation group to group. The United States of America is diversity of peoples from many lands celebrating who we are and where we came from. The USAmerican Flan is not the possession of any one group and is not a weapon for any group's private use.

The ROFL in Ralph N. Shirlet


Posted by Sherry W., a resident of Danville
on May 14, 2010 at 8:23 am

Mr. Shirlet - a voice of reason. I'm going to like it here...

Army Street: Cesar Chavez day is a celebration of rights for migrant workers (he founded the UFW) - many who are of Hispanic culture, but the reason for the celebration is in a very different spirit. His work benefits all migrant workers, regardless of ethnicity.


Posted by Question, a resident of another community
on May 14, 2010 at 4:18 pm

Ralph, you are my hero.


Posted by Diversity Costs, a resident of Alamo
on May 14, 2010 at 5:28 pm

Everyday is Cinco de Mayo at Title I schools, free breakfast, free lunch, free intervention classes, and practically free after school programs.


Posted by Question, a resident of another community
on May 14, 2010 at 10:13 pm

Diversity,
Can you propose an alternative to Title 1? How would you address this?


Posted by Diversity Costs, a resident of Alamo
on May 15, 2010 at 12:09 pm

Answer:

Years ago, I would have suggested common sense, but now in our chaotic liberal world without definition, I need to be more specific, and specifically state enforce legal immigration.

Years ago, an immigrant would require a sponsor to act as a "guarantor," vouching for the foreign party's good behavior, financial viability (ability to support oneself for one year)and honest intentions while on American soil.

These requirements have all one by the wayside, people no longer immigrate for religious, academic, or political freedom, they immigrate for a "free lunch."


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 15, 2010 at 2:45 pm

jrm is a registered user.

Diversity Costs....I just have to say your reactive racism is sad. Not to be unkind, but to me you seem like a disenfranchised miscreant at lost in an increasingly diverse workplace. You must be retired or in some form of work where your ignorant xenophobia is not cause for termination or exposing your employer to lawsuits. I guess you yearn for the days of racial purification of the Fatherland....my great grandparents came from Denmark, settled in a small community in Kansas comprised of fellow Danes, and they all helped each other out in the hopes of creating a better life for my Grandfather. Get over it....what is your family tree? The only original "americans" around here now run Casinos.


Posted by Joe, a resident of Danville
on May 15, 2010 at 4:47 pm

JRM,you expressed a reasonable position I agree with in contrast to Gary's, he cites a number of military conflicts in terms that ignore the fact that Mexican-Americans died alongside others of different ethnic backgrounds in order that we could enjoy freedoms to enjoy Columbus


Posted by Joe, a resident of Danville
on May 15, 2010 at 5:14 pm

St. Patrick's Day, Octoberfest,Cinco de Mayo,etc.I suggest that t-shirts w/comments re: praise for N. Ireland,Nazi's, Italian's being Mafiosi, or the like would not be received well on those occasions!I am of the opinion that the wearing of the shirts is fine if worn occasionally like any other apparel but there was no of such, the impression I got from the Beck,Ingraham, and Fox coverage was that they had the expectation that it would cause friction and news that would attract far right media's attention.Did they wear the bandanas in violation of school policy on previous occassions,doubt it.Gary says Cinco is not a US holiday,I can think of at least 6 that we all enjoy regardless of our ethnic roots,what test is he using?The Gary's, Tea Partiers, and and Fox news and their cohorts do not attempt to learn lessons and unite positions, they seek division and contribute to the worst traits of those who seek to blame rather than to unite.


Posted by Diversity Costs, a resident of Alamo
on May 15, 2010 at 5:52 pm

Dear jrm:

I am glad to hear your point of view, but do see a double standard in not allowing others to hold or express diverse opinions without being called a racist. Enforcing legal immigration in this country should not be in my opinion a reason for calling another person a racist.

I would suggest that you revisit your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks.


Posted by On Racism, a resident of another community
on May 15, 2010 at 6:42 pm

I think part of the problem is a large subset of the group that is strongly anti-immigration IS in fact racist (though I doubt many of them consider themselves racist), and so it's very difficult to distinguish non-racist anti-immigration rhetoric from the hatred spewed forth by those who just can't stand a large proportion of our population having brown faces. Many of these folks are not just against illegal immigration, they're against having to share their country with so many of "those people." I think they'd be ok with the educated classes immigrating from Mexico, but the agrarian classes are not fit to share their neighborhoods and are "turning CA into Mexico." I have a hard time distinguishing this attitude from racism. And yet I do understand the high cost, not just monetary, of illegal immigration and I do agree it's something that must be addressed, and not just by border states. I hope to see Obama's administration take decisive action. I don't care whether congress has already tackled a huge task this year...they need to get to work on the illegal immigration problem.


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 15, 2010 at 6:54 pm

jrm is a registered user.

People really don't relocate here for a "free lunch"...those are your words....indeed your title is "diversity costs". My Grandfather talked about how the Germans previously settled in Kansas resented the newly arrived Danes moving in, and the same for the Swedes...this is really nothing new. In my mind diversity does not cost, based on my employment with a global employer of over 40,000 folks we need cross pollenation to make us more competitive in growing international markets. I report to a fellow who has an MBA from USC and he immigrated from India years ago and I assure you he was not seeking a free lunch. The hispanic gentleman who cuts my grass works hard for the $120.00 per month I pay him. You are entitled to your views of course but you might wake up a little bit happier each day if you tried to look at this differently...it is none of my business of course and your vote counts just as much as mine.


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 15, 2010 at 6:59 pm

jrm is a registered user.

Just wanted to say I agree with "On racism"...indeed there is a cost I must admit, especially in health care, specifically obstetrical expenses...if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby at UCSD Med Center at 30 weeks gestation we will pay around $85,000 for that baby's NICU bill, at least. The fact that that baby was born here has us on the hook financially. Managing the "womb issues" is practically impossible though..


Posted by Diversity Costs, a resident of Alamo
on May 15, 2010 at 10:19 pm

JRM: I am speaking of illegal immigration not of general immigration. California's state population is now comprised of 10% illegal immigrants (over 3 million people). California schools are comprised of 15% illegal immigrant school children costing the state nearly 10B dollars annually (please don't take these numbers as fact, research them yourself, and you will see that liberal news publications such as the Washington Times concur, and even the California DOJ).

Illegal immigration adversely impacts people and families attempting to immigrate to the United States legally. Illegal immigrant education costs equate to one half of our current state budget deficit (shortfall). Every California taxpayer (8.8M) on average is paying over $1,000 each year to educate illegal immigrant children, who according to law have right to state provided education.

Current illegal immigrant California population as stated represents 10% of the total state population.

JRM: I then ask a simple and direct question, at what point should the state began controlling the tide of illegal immigration, 1%, 5%, 10% (current) or when illegal immigration represents 25% of the total state population or more? Should we inform people and families who are attempting to legally immigrate to the United States to forget it, and simply join the wave of illegal immigration? What about the integrity of law, should not Americans who pride themselves on law, uphold the law, even when it makes them squimish in the area of immigration?


Posted by American, a resident of Danville
on May 16, 2010 at 11:46 am

"Diversity Costs": What you just noted is so logical and common sense, that you would assume no intelligent, honest, individual would disagree with you. However, I have learned that unfortunately in the bay area, logic, common sense, and honesty is often in short supply, as there are a group of people who simply fall in line behind the most liberal position, no matter what it may be. How can anyone oppose enforcing immigration laws, and welcoming those who follow the law to legal immigration as citizens, while making those who break the law be held accountable? If we simply ignore the law, anarchy will follow. Lets reward those immigrants who follow the law and legal path to citizenship, by not turning a blind, liberal eye to those who ignore the law.


Posted by On Racism, a resident of another community
on May 16, 2010 at 4:27 pm

American, I don't think anyone here, including JRM, was suggesting that we not enforce immigration law. This started, in large part, because of the name "Diversity Costs.". After all, this poster did not choose the name "Illegal Immigration Costs."
I do take issue with the suggestion that diversity costs. Maybe it does, but the costs are far outweighed by the benefits.





Posted by American, a resident of Danville
on May 16, 2010 at 5:56 pm

"On Racism": I appreciate your opinions, but respectfully do not agree. I hope your title, "On Racism", does mean that you are one of those individuals who simply sees racism everywhere, even where it does not exist. Immigration laws, I believe, are not racist, as every country must enforce their borders. Personally, I do not care if you are from Mexico, England, France,Canada, etc., as I welcome you to our great country if you follow our immigration laws and the path to legal citizenship. I do not welcome you if you illegally enter our country. I am not a "racist", I am an "American", and our country is based on immigration(legal). People who see "racism" everywhere, even where it does not exist, do a real disservice to jurisprudence as it cheapens the "real racism" that does sometimes occur, that we must stop.


Posted by Diversity Costs, a resident of Alamo
on May 16, 2010 at 5:57 pm

Racism:

Corporate HR and social engineers work extremely hard each day to convince their citizenry of the benefits and necessity of diversity in the workforce.

High culture though crosses borders without the aid of an immigrant. We now live in the world of radio, television, telephone, jet travel, computer e-mail, and the internet. Nearly every good-sized American city has an opera company but it wasn't necessarily established by Italians.

Please feel free to quantify the legitimate economic benefits of your particular belief. Thank you.


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 16, 2010 at 6:56 pm

jrm is a registered user.

Of course we need to enforce our immigration law, my goodness, I would never suggest otherwise. My initial contribution to this thread was to point out I felt the issue with the "Morgan Hill Five" (as Rush has deemed them) was not a stifling of a patriotic display at the expense of American rights. Thank you "On Racism" for giving me a chance to clarify.


Posted by On Racism, a resident of another community
on May 16, 2010 at 7:39 pm

The name On Racism was chosen because I was discussing the subject of racism, not because I believe those who are for protecting our borders are racist. Not sure how that leap was made. And no, I don't see racism everywhere...some places, sure (I'm sure not in denial about its existence). Mostly I see other people like me who live in Danville for the safety and the good schools, but who regret that we don't have a more diverse population and try to get their kids out into the "real world" as much as possible.

Diversity: Your question to me is fascinating. You want me to justify diversity in economic terms? Why are you so opposed to diversity? What are the costs (forgetting illegal immigration for a minute)? Are you referring to quotas and affirmative action or to a diversified workforce in general?

As for the benefits, I wasn't only referring to economics, but I do think there are huge economic benefits to diversity in this global economy. Anyone who runs a business knows breadth of experience, varying viewpoints, and fresh ideas are vital to success. I wouldn't want to try running business in today's economy without taking advantage of the wisdom our varied population has to offer.

Apart from that, I'll quote Morgan Freeman from Robin Hood: "Allah loves wondrous variety." I'm very thankful I'm raising my children in a way that helps them appreciate and embrace diversity, not scorn or fear it. The only people they fear are the closed-minded.


Posted by Diversity Costs, a resident of Alamo
on May 16, 2010 at 11:35 pm

Racism:

Babble, but no legitimate economic justification for your particular belief. End of conversation. Thank you.


Posted by On Racism, a resident of Danville
on May 16, 2010 at 11:39 pm

I do take issue with the suggestion that diversity costs. Maybe it does, but the costs are far outweighed by the benefits.


Posted by On Racism, a resident of another community
on May 17, 2010 at 5:47 am

Diversity Costs,
Heh. Thanks for the enlightening conversation.

Babble because it doesn't include manipulated statistics? Just common sense?

You're charming. Enjoy your bitter day.


Posted by Diversity Costs, a resident of Alamo
on May 17, 2010 at 6:20 am

Is that the best you can do, wish me a bitter day, because you cannot accept the idea that diversity actually costs?

Have a nice day, all smiles!


Posted by Dawn, a resident of Alamo
on May 17, 2010 at 9:11 am

Nowhere in all the comments here or in any the news coverage of this issue did I read, see, or hear anything about flag etiquette.

Web Link

Our flag is flown upside down ONLY as a distress signal. Given that, the proper response to the actions at the Morgan Hill school should have been by the police and National Guard. They would be correct in assuming that the school was under attack or being subjected to some kind of duress that required immediate law enforcement or military defense.


Posted by Flag Clothing, a resident of Danville
on May 17, 2010 at 9:59 am

The students were not wearing flags, or using flags as apparrel. The students were wearing t-shirts with a facsimile of the flag, and therefore not considered disrepectful in any manner.


Posted by Dawn, a resident of Alamo
on May 17, 2010 at 10:11 am

It had been my understanding that the students had re-hung the American flag upside down, underneath the Mexican flag, on the school flagpole halyard.

Web Link

It did not happen at this particular high school, or even this year, however, and I was mistaken.

I am familiar with the flag code and did not in any way suggest that wearing a facsimile of the flag was against the code, nor did I mention apparel.


Posted by Joe and Jose, a resident of Danville
on May 17, 2010 at 11:03 am

2 families live in California.... "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2 parents, 2 children.

"Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.
"Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal... $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week = $52,000 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax. Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal... $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week = $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays for Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage ... $1000.00 per month = $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00.
Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money to be eligible for Food Stamps or Welfare so Joe Legal pays for food... $1,000.00 per month = $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month = $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal is now in the hole -$4,769.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy, which entirely pays his rent of $500.00 per month = $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays and gets a part time job after work to make ends meet.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school.
Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get free government sponsored lunches.
Joe Legal's children go home after school. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program which, again, is provided free of charge.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe Legal paid for them and Jose Illegal did not pay.


Posted by The Reverend, a resident of Danville
on May 17, 2010 at 11:10 am

Are you all aware that AMERICA fought this war against the french WITH Mexico? America lent RESOURCES. History BOOKS people, and MR. JACKBALL PRINCIPLE.. READ THEM..Not Fox news circus. BOOKS..Things with the little typing in them. History on the cover would be a good start. Also, are we all really fighting this back and forth over a Hallmark Holiday? Are you all serious with this? Why is there no celebration for the bombing of any one of the city's we did during WW2? I understand the idea of being proud of a victory, BUT, is America not the MELTING POT? Are there not French people here? DO you ALL realize, 8000 French soldiers are said to have lost there lives that day? Do you think they were all bad people? Is THAT EVER A REASON TO CELEBRATE?


Posted by Cinco de Mayo, a resident of Danville
on May 17, 2010 at 12:15 pm

The Mexicans decided to stop paying interest on money borrowed from the French. The Mexicans squelch on their debt and celebrate the day. Look it up.


Posted by collins, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 17, 2010 at 12:46 pm

I believe that there is nothing wrong with celebrating Cinco De Mayo at a school, however, does that same school allow for European celebrations? There are many holidays our forefathers from Europe celebrated. Wouldn't it truly be diversity if our schools recognized all cultures? Maybe they would learn a bit of history, as well. I also believe that students who want to wear a shirt with the American flag on it should be allowed to do so. This needs to be done in a respectful manner, as I believe the students did. Perhaps the principal should be chastised in some way, but not fired.

Gary, I agree with your comment about the veterans turning in their graves over this. My many times Great-Grandfather, William Hamilton, who immigrated from Scotland, fought in the Revolutionary war and died at Cow Pens. I think he would support the students and their pro-American display.




Posted by A Mad American, a resident of Danville
on May 17, 2010 at 2:10 pm

I think we will all agree that if our federal government had done it's job and "closed" the borders so illegal aliens could not come into our country bringing drugs, crime, human trafficking, etc. this country would definitely be much better off. Let's face it, these illegals have cost us tremendously, as Joe reminded us....and I agree! Asside from cleaning our homes, working in our fields and mowing/blowing our lawns, how have they benefited us? They are leaching from us, true and simple! They take jobs that Americans could have, get free medical, food stamps, translaters, and on and on! Now the Democrats want to give them amnesty so they can benefit from their votes; typical Democrats, not caring about anything but themselves! My family and I are FED UP with the handouts to illegals! The Webster Dictionary describes illegal as: Prohibited by law; against the law; unlawful; illicit; not authorized or sanctioned; an alien who has entered the U.S. illegally! They should all be arrested....not allowed to demonstrate; making demands of our country! I have seen thier demonstrations and signs in which they say they want to take over our country. I have seen their flag flying above the American flag;(which they hung upside down)in Reno, Nv. If we entered their country illegally we would be arrested and jailed for a minimum of two years for "treason"!!!! They wouldn't give us "ANYTHING".....except bread and water in a dirty cell! We cater to them....why???? Would someone please tell me? I truly do not understand it!
And "yes" I think those boys had a perfect right to wear American flag clothing! could it be that the pricipal, who is hispanic, was a bit biased??
Americans please quit babying hispanics, most of which are probably here illegally! I say send them back to Mexico and let their government take care of them; (which they won't)!


Posted by Spencer Nickson, a resident of Montair Elementary School
on May 17, 2010 at 2:13 pm

It was merely a bad decision by a principal who thought he was doing the right thing. So many of you here lead small lives and are trying to make this bigger than it is. Get out in the world, do something constructive, and move on.

SN


Posted by Caroline, a resident of Danville
on May 17, 2010 at 8:26 pm

Mad American -
So how many of your friends are willing to do the backbreaking work of picking strawberries, lettuce, artichokes, lettuce, apples, peaches, cherries etc?
I agree that we must address illegal immigration; however, your hate speech does nothing to solve the problem.


Posted by Sarah, a resident of Danville
on May 18, 2010 at 6:52 am

Interesting article on the costs and benefits of immigration from the WSJ. A little dated (2006), but still relevant.

Web Link


Posted by The Reverend, a resident of Danville
on May 18, 2010 at 10:14 am

Dearest "Cinco de Mayo" - the user here, not the Holiday, I don't want to confuse you,it seems easy to do. It seems we need to be more clear. Let me ask you if you have heard of this little tiny American event, The Tea Party of December 16, 1773. I wonder what that was about??? Hmmmm??? Look it up? Most nations are born or destroyed out of some similar events. So what the hell does your point have to do with any of this? Are you just mad, and want a reason to be mad? Does a dispute over taxes justify thousands of people, that had nothing to really do with it, being killed? As I read above, I became more and more ashamed to be a white American. There is NO QUESTION that principle should be fired, but if those kids that were wearing the flag T-shirts are of the same mindset that some of the people posting here are, they should be fire from the human race as well. If they're uninformed and just using a loop-hole there father taught them to be racist, that isn't right either. One last point for today. To make comments like, " backbreaking work of picking strawberries, lettuce, artichokes, lettuce, apples, peaches, cherries etc? ", is really fairly offensive. It pits Hispanic people as labors that do dirty jobs that no one else will do. I ask one thing; In the grand scheme of life, what is more valuable, lush food, or what some of us do, that sit in CUBICLES all day, and move useless E-paper from point to point? Is a fancy shinny car really important to prove your worth? If so, then you have no worth. So I do wonder about those "Jobs" that no one else is willing to do.


Posted by adair, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 18, 2010 at 11:33 am

To The Reverend, Please don't ever be ashamed to be a white American. Be proud to be who and what you are.
My problem is not with Hispanic people, it is with illegals, any of them. There are many illegal aliens in this country who are not Hispanic. There are laws that need to be enforced. One example is immigrants, both legal and illegal, who take jobs that are not just laborers, but in the Hi-Tech industry. There are many engineers, who are Americans of all ethnicities, who are unemployed.
I also have noticed that many of you are blaming liberals and democrats for this problem. As a proud liberal democrats, I ask that you try to keep the paratisan rhetoric to a minimum. Let us stop blaming and try to solve the problem. I doubt that the Sons of Liberty would have concerned themselves with differences rather than what they had in common.


Posted by Corona, a resident of Danville
on May 18, 2010 at 4:48 pm

Dear Reverend,

Tea Party, taxation without representation, was not exactly straight outright refusal to pay interest on a legitimate debt obligation. The Mexicans decided not only stop paying debt principle, but to stop paying interest on money borrowed from the French. Let's have a beer and celebrate their victory!


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 18, 2010 at 6:48 pm

jrm is a registered user.

Come on Joe and Jose...no documented immigration staus and they get a rent subsidy? No documented status and they get food stamps?
There may be extraneous examples but they is not the norm...BUT, I applaud your intent...I have no problem with appropriately restricting our border access to those from all over the globe. Part of my healthcare orientation has taught me we have an exploding birthrate south of the equator and a declining birthrate north of such. The ramifications are huge.


Posted by Sarah, a resident of Danville
on May 18, 2010 at 7:49 pm

You folks who feel passionately about this subject should read Arthur Schlesinger Jr's book, The Disuniting of America: Reflections on a Multicultural Society.

He reviews the history of immigration to this country and goes on to suggest the "cult of ethnicity" that has arisen, in large part legitimately and as a reaction to oppression and racism, has gone too far and is a threat because it may be impossible to recover from its divisiveness. However he appreciates the value of ethnic identity and I enjoy his balanced presentation.

Anyway, worth a look if you have the time.

Sarah


Posted by Caroline, a resident of Danville
on May 18, 2010 at 8:04 pm

Reverend -
I did not say that the only jobs Hispanics can do are non-skilled, manual labor jobs, so do not put words in my mouth. Hispanics are just as talented as any other race; any Hispanic is capable of doing any job that is out there to be done.
I was responding, however, to Mad American's comment that illegal immigrants are taking "jobs that Americans could have." I was merely trying to make the point that there are very few of us who would want to have to pick the fields in order to make a living because that work and that lifestyle, following the crops, is not an easy one. (Read the book, The Circuit, for a quick insight into that world.) It is, however, honorable work.


Posted by Sarah, a resident of Danville
on May 18, 2010 at 8:33 pm

Caroline,
I agree with you. Illegal immigration has also created a second economy, one without a minimum wage, that reflects what the market will truly bear. If we do find an effective way to curb illegal immigration, it will be interesting to see the effect of the loss of that second economy. Certainly the price of the produce you mention will go up. Hmmm....may mean more demand for produce imported from Mexico!

Sarah


Posted by Bob Reyes, a resident of Alamo
on May 19, 2010 at 1:42 pm

This is the problem with the first amendment. People are allowed to speak without first thinking. That applies to most of the people who have posted comments here. You bask in what the Constitution allows without first taking the responsibility for being a thoughtful citizen. You are indeed entitled to your rights, but you're not much of a citizen if all you do is run around speaking without thinking.


Posted by amused, a resident of another community
on May 19, 2010 at 8:14 pm

Bob, you give us far too much credit. How are you sure we're not thinking first? Maybe this is the best we can do.

I'm proud to live in a country where I'm "allowed" to speak (or write) without thinking! Although, I must say it would be more peaceful if many of us would think without speaking.

And just for the record, we're writing, not speaking.


Posted by jrm, a resident of Vista Grande Elementary School
on May 20, 2010 at 10:12 pm

jrm is a registered user.

IMHO this has been an informative thread...get over it Bob...


Posted by The Reverend, a resident of Danville
on May 21, 2010 at 9:46 am

Bob.. Thanks for the thoughtless comments. You make no point relevant to this discuss. It seems that if you don't agree with something, you think it's without thought. I personally LOVE everyone's thoughts here, no matter if I agree or do not. We have all remained civil in a very difficult discussion, and caused one another other to think. Even your comments have no sparked other comments, which means, thought. Just because you don't agree, or can't see someone else point, does not make it without thought. And BTW, unless you're of a mental capacity on a level that is without fault I would be shocked if you have not been wrong to judge someone else ideas at some point. I have personally learned that sometimes when I am SURE I am correct or someone else is COMPLETELY wrong, that later I have come to find.. I DIDN'T KNOW EVERYTHING,,, and WHOA they where right. Think about it Bob.


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